Just got done with 2 days of unloading , separating and piling wood. I have to say, its great exercise when the weather is nice.
Got about 4000 feet out of the kiln this time. I have one small load of curly red oak to get tomorrow. I am tired.
This load was a mix of stuff from both close by and from the great north woods. I love unpiling it and thinking what each board could make. The juices still run strong in making things. I see furniture and small pieces coming from each piece. Yes, I handle each board several times. That is why I know just how nice the figure is and what it can be used for. I am not like a cabinet shop where they make boxes and doors and drawers. I see log sets being made into outstanding pieces for someone's home. Each board in the set with rich heavy figure. This is all part of what I love to do. I don't have employees, just me and I do all the work. Again, no complaints, just allows me to see what is good, great or not so good. I have clients that like certain figures and I need to find and pull or at least sort so I know where it is.
I have a bunch of photos and will put some on here. This load had a little of everything.
Birdseye maple with some really heavy eye, some of the tightest soft curly maple I have ever seen and some beautiful tight curl hard maple that is just breathtaking. Last but not least, a nice selection of curly red oak, in 4/4, 6/4 and a little 8/4. A few hundred feet. Lots of matching boards in the oak and also wide material. That came from a veneer factory that sorts out any figure. I am not a fan of red oak, but this material is stunning. Big wavy curl. Some on one side, some going across the whole width of the board.
If you would like to contact me to purchase any of this, check out my web site at
www.bobkloes.com or check me out on facebook here.
https://www.facebook.com/KloesCustomWoodwork/
I ship all over the country. There is stock for guitars,furniture,boxes,urns and most anything in many thicknesses up to 4" thick and 24" wide. I can help with questions on finish or construction of furniture. I think that makes me a little different from a lot of wood sellers.
Showing posts with label bark inclusion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label bark inclusion. Show all posts
Wednesday, May 18, 2016
Heavy eye birdseye, curly bark pocket , tight curly maple and curly red oak all in one load
Wednesday, March 30, 2016
Kiln unloading-March 2016
Hello folks.
It has been a pretty crazy few weeks. Lots to do and get done . I got the kiln unloaded this last week and thought you might like seeing what came out.
Mostly 4/4 birdseye, hard curly maple and flame birch and some bark pocket and odd stuff. Some 5/4 as well. Here are some pictures.
This is the bark pocket. Nice small bark inclusions in the boards. Curl and figure as well. All hard maple.
This is heavy white birdseye in the rough. The one piece on the right has some "color" in it.
This is hard curly maple. There was lots of beautiful stuff in this batch. White and wide. And loads of intense curl.
This is the flame birch. You can see the "barber pole" effect in the side grain. Some of this goes into my kitchen.......sometime.
There was only about 2500 ft this time. Next load will be about 4500 ft. not sure where it will all fit. But I sure love seeing it come out.
Thanks for following along.Email me or call if you need really nice figured wood. I am not always fast, but I keep trying. Look at my web site for contact info.
www.bobkloes.com
Almost forgot the curly red oak. Its some nice wide materiel and runs 4.50 board foot. Has a big crescent moon curl in it.
It has been a pretty crazy few weeks. Lots to do and get done . I got the kiln unloaded this last week and thought you might like seeing what came out.
Mostly 4/4 birdseye, hard curly maple and flame birch and some bark pocket and odd stuff. Some 5/4 as well. Here are some pictures.
This is the bark pocket. Nice small bark inclusions in the boards. Curl and figure as well. All hard maple.
This is heavy white birdseye in the rough. The one piece on the right has some "color" in it.
This is hard curly maple. There was lots of beautiful stuff in this batch. White and wide. And loads of intense curl.
This is the flame birch. You can see the "barber pole" effect in the side grain. Some of this goes into my kitchen.......sometime.
There was only about 2500 ft this time. Next load will be about 4500 ft. not sure where it will all fit. But I sure love seeing it come out.
Thanks for following along.Email me or call if you need really nice figured wood. I am not always fast, but I keep trying. Look at my web site for contact info.
www.bobkloes.com
Almost forgot the curly red oak. Its some nice wide materiel and runs 4.50 board foot. Has a big crescent moon curl in it.
Friday, September 4, 2015
What I see when I look at rough sawn lumber
I have been asked many many times how I pick the lumber I do. I guess I have looked at so much over the years I think I know what will be good or not. Its not a perfect system by any means. The mill is the first ones to pull the wood. I have met with the owners and have also taken time to meet with the graders and sawyers.Believe me when I say, its all about trust and communications.
I take time to educate everyone that will be picking wood for me. Its only in their and my best interests to be forthright and honest. Once we are on the same page, it goes very smooth. You get some hiccups once in a while, but nothing that can't be worked out.
I go by the National hardwood graders rules on all my lumber. They are well explained and there are sources on the web to read them. I am not a certified grader. I go by what they tell me is what I am wanting. I usually don't mind color on 1 side of a board. By color, I mean heartwood or mineral streak. I can pull all white if the client wants that. Its just adds to the cost. On many of the pieces i have built over the last 35 years, I rarely needed both sides of a piece to show. And with using dyes to color the wood, it barely ever makes any difference.
Instrument makers are the hardest to work with. I do sell to a few. Many are just asking for the moon and then do not want to pay the cost. I will work with anyone and try and be honest and fair. But you can't ask to buy the cream of the crop and then complain about the cost. The very top 10% of the wood is the easiest to sell. It is also the most expensive. 25$ to 50$ foot is not hard to get at all.
Whats hard is selling bulk. I get , what I consider , to be some very high grade material. It is easy to say I sell only the very best, but I do get a lot of wood and there is stuff that does not make the highest grade. By that, I mean some curly maple has some heartwood, or some birdseye has some color or wane [barky edges]. Never has it stopped me from using it in my work. But some folks are under the impression that God only makes pure white, heavy eye birdseye and they want 30" wide boards 5 feet long and all clear. For 17$....I have had that question asked, more then once. I guess what I am saying is , the wood is all cut to my specs at the mills. I have had very few issues with bad material.
I try and sell only what will work for a project to folks. I ask questions about what they are building. Its a whole lot easier to help if I know what you are going to be cutting the boards into. I know in many of my pieces, I rarely use boards more then 4 or 5 feet long. Many times is 18 inches to 36 inches long. I never worry much about cup and twist in figured woods. It happens and always will. I wish I could dry it all in a vacuum kiln. But I can't afford to buy one. My wood is done the old fashion way. Air dried , then in a dehumidification kiln. It works well. But the figured woods all tend to twist and cup and God knows what. The wood is all sawn to inch and one either for 4/4 stock. I can cut the material I need and by jointing 1 side flat and then planing it, I still can get 7/8" to 13/16" for the pieces. If you think you can by 1 inch stock and resaw it to get two 1/2" pieces, it will not happen. At best you may get two pieces that are 3/8".
A piece of really heavy figured curl or birdseye can be dead flat or it can be twisted like a pretzel. I just have to figure out how to use it the best way. I will not toss and badly twisted piece. I'll figure out something can be made from it. its up to me to figure out.
I probably shouldn't say this, but for the pieces I have made in my home, I used the worst stuff no one would buy. It all worked.
Here are some pictures of wood in the rough and then some of it planed. I see the figure in the rough. Its the one way I tell the mills what I want. If I can't see the figure in the rough, I don't want the wood. The figure is not heavy enough. Many of my clients will say, "you just pick it out, because I know, you know what it will look like."I hope that folks will trust me to always give them great material. My word means something and if you don't like what I have picked, I will gladly take it back. The only way I
can't is if you have colored it or chopped into small pieces. In all the years selling wood, I only had 1 order refunded. Being a 1 person business, I am trying hard to gain and keep my customers.
hard curly maple before and after planing
Flame birch before planing
after planing
Weird figure maple before planing
bark pocket maple after planing
Birdseye maple after planing
Birdseye maple before planing
I hope this helps show what I see. Any questions, please email me or call. Hope you all have a great Labor Day weekend.
I take time to educate everyone that will be picking wood for me. Its only in their and my best interests to be forthright and honest. Once we are on the same page, it goes very smooth. You get some hiccups once in a while, but nothing that can't be worked out.
I go by the National hardwood graders rules on all my lumber. They are well explained and there are sources on the web to read them. I am not a certified grader. I go by what they tell me is what I am wanting. I usually don't mind color on 1 side of a board. By color, I mean heartwood or mineral streak. I can pull all white if the client wants that. Its just adds to the cost. On many of the pieces i have built over the last 35 years, I rarely needed both sides of a piece to show. And with using dyes to color the wood, it barely ever makes any difference.
Instrument makers are the hardest to work with. I do sell to a few. Many are just asking for the moon and then do not want to pay the cost. I will work with anyone and try and be honest and fair. But you can't ask to buy the cream of the crop and then complain about the cost. The very top 10% of the wood is the easiest to sell. It is also the most expensive. 25$ to 50$ foot is not hard to get at all.
Whats hard is selling bulk. I get , what I consider , to be some very high grade material. It is easy to say I sell only the very best, but I do get a lot of wood and there is stuff that does not make the highest grade. By that, I mean some curly maple has some heartwood, or some birdseye has some color or wane [barky edges]. Never has it stopped me from using it in my work. But some folks are under the impression that God only makes pure white, heavy eye birdseye and they want 30" wide boards 5 feet long and all clear. For 17$....I have had that question asked, more then once. I guess what I am saying is , the wood is all cut to my specs at the mills. I have had very few issues with bad material.
I try and sell only what will work for a project to folks. I ask questions about what they are building. Its a whole lot easier to help if I know what you are going to be cutting the boards into. I know in many of my pieces, I rarely use boards more then 4 or 5 feet long. Many times is 18 inches to 36 inches long. I never worry much about cup and twist in figured woods. It happens and always will. I wish I could dry it all in a vacuum kiln. But I can't afford to buy one. My wood is done the old fashion way. Air dried , then in a dehumidification kiln. It works well. But the figured woods all tend to twist and cup and God knows what. The wood is all sawn to inch and one either for 4/4 stock. I can cut the material I need and by jointing 1 side flat and then planing it, I still can get 7/8" to 13/16" for the pieces. If you think you can by 1 inch stock and resaw it to get two 1/2" pieces, it will not happen. At best you may get two pieces that are 3/8".
A piece of really heavy figured curl or birdseye can be dead flat or it can be twisted like a pretzel. I just have to figure out how to use it the best way. I will not toss and badly twisted piece. I'll figure out something can be made from it. its up to me to figure out.
I probably shouldn't say this, but for the pieces I have made in my home, I used the worst stuff no one would buy. It all worked.
Here are some pictures of wood in the rough and then some of it planed. I see the figure in the rough. Its the one way I tell the mills what I want. If I can't see the figure in the rough, I don't want the wood. The figure is not heavy enough. Many of my clients will say, "you just pick it out, because I know, you know what it will look like."I hope that folks will trust me to always give them great material. My word means something and if you don't like what I have picked, I will gladly take it back. The only way I
can't is if you have colored it or chopped into small pieces. In all the years selling wood, I only had 1 order refunded. Being a 1 person business, I am trying hard to gain and keep my customers.
hard curly maple before and after planing
Flame birch before planing
after planing
Weird figure maple before planing
bark pocket maple after planing
Birdseye maple after planing
Birdseye maple before planing
I hope this helps show what I see. Any questions, please email me or call. Hope you all have a great Labor Day weekend.
Saturday, May 4, 2013
Springtime in Wisconsin
The picture above shows some mineral streak in the board on the left. The board on the right has bark inclusion in it. Mineral streak is what the tree gets out of the ground as it grows. Most hard maples have this in them. The figured ones seem worse then plain.
This plank is birdseye, 4" thick and very heavy.The plank below is 16/4 hard tiger maple. Very tight curl and will probably go for music instruments. The bird poop is free...
The last 2 months have been busy. Got almost 4000' of birdseye and hard tiger maple stacked and stickered . Thank God for my friends and son in law. They haul and help me stack and sticker. Some of these planks of green maple weigh several hundred pounds each. I move each of these pieces 4 times by hand by myself and with help. You wonder why good wood costs money? Lots of dollars tied up for a long time drying. Gas and truck expenses and dry kiln expenses. Plus handling. Sure makes the price more reasonable when you think about it. It takes lots of care to make sure it dries right, without honey comb or checking. Can't do much about twist and warp, but we try. This will stay like this for several months. Then slowly it gets kiln dried. The 4/4 stock[1"] takes the shortest. The 16/4[yes 4" thick birdseye and tiger maple] can take a year or more. Can't rush it. Its like wine. It has to be done correct or you get firewood. I was so happy to get 12/4 birdseye, now I even have some 16/4. Not much at all but what I have is wonderful. A lot of this came off an island in Upper Michigan. Nice slow growth and wide. Seems to have a lot of 10" and wider stock. Had to be some huge trees.
The paint colors tell me what mills they come from. The end grain gets sealed at the kiln. I know folks say you can use latex paint or oil paint to seal end grain. Talk to any mill or kiln, they only use anchor seal. Its wax based and seals perfect. Best stuff out there. I will not cut corners drying wood. It is like building furniture. Do the best you can with the best material and you have no regrets.
This plank is birdseye, 4" thick and very heavy.The plank below is 16/4 hard tiger maple. Very tight curl and will probably go for music instruments. The bird poop is free...
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Piles of birdseye and hard curly maple |
The last 2 months have been busy. Got almost 4000' of birdseye and hard tiger maple stacked and stickered . Thank God for my friends and son in law. They haul and help me stack and sticker. Some of these planks of green maple weigh several hundred pounds each. I move each of these pieces 4 times by hand by myself and with help. You wonder why good wood costs money? Lots of dollars tied up for a long time drying. Gas and truck expenses and dry kiln expenses. Plus handling. Sure makes the price more reasonable when you think about it. It takes lots of care to make sure it dries right, without honey comb or checking. Can't do much about twist and warp, but we try. This will stay like this for several months. Then slowly it gets kiln dried. The 4/4 stock[1"] takes the shortest. The 16/4[yes 4" thick birdseye and tiger maple] can take a year or more. Can't rush it. Its like wine. It has to be done correct or you get firewood. I was so happy to get 12/4 birdseye, now I even have some 16/4. Not much at all but what I have is wonderful. A lot of this came off an island in Upper Michigan. Nice slow growth and wide. Seems to have a lot of 10" and wider stock. Had to be some huge trees.
The paint colors tell me what mills they come from. The end grain gets sealed at the kiln. I know folks say you can use latex paint or oil paint to seal end grain. Talk to any mill or kiln, they only use anchor seal. Its wax based and seals perfect. Best stuff out there. I will not cut corners drying wood. It is like building furniture. Do the best you can with the best material and you have no regrets.
Sunday, April 22, 2012
Spalted maple and some other goodies.
Got a new load of wood from the kiln today. I also had these boards heat treated. I don't think I want to build with wood that has a live fungus or bugs in it. So I have them cook these at 145 degrees for 48 hours to kill anything in them. This was some really nice spalted hard maple I got from a friend. Years ago we sheeted his shop with this stuff. I t about cried. He kept saying it didn't make him sad. He had some left over and I finally talked him into selling it. It is 12 feet long and 4 to 7" wide. Nice clean stock.
I have been very busy in the shop. Did a small dining room table, some benches, a vanity in black ash and some smaller pieces. It has been a good week. Got some wood to ship out this coming week.Have to get some desks made and some more benches. I want to get one of the nice tiger maple slabs in and plane to get some pictures for a guy who wants a mantle. Got some wonderful nice slabs here, along with a bunch of new 8/4 stock. Had my buddy turn some legs in flame birch and birdseye. They came out wonderful. Email me if you are looking for leg stock or some great stock for small boxes.
Saturday, December 17, 2011
A note to woodworkers
I have gotten a number of emails about the lumber I use and sell. Just wanted to let you all know, I really appreciate the emails and business. If you are looking for figured domestic hardwoods, let me know. I carry a lot of things in curly cherry, flame birch , tiger maple and birdseye maple. You can email me at
info at bobkloes.com
Just replace the at with @.
I do send out newsletters with wood for sale listed. I also have lots of things on hand , like hard maple burls and some 1 of a kind pieces. Check out my web site
www.bobkloes.com and see what I build. I am always happy to answer questions or help get you the right lumber for your project.
This is the stepback with the secret space under the lid and secret drawers
This is the ogee bracket foot off the stepback above
This is a tiger maple slab table I did with a good partner who does all the metal and stone work. Hope you enjoy. bob
info at bobkloes.com
Just replace the at with @.
I do send out newsletters with wood for sale listed. I also have lots of things on hand , like hard maple burls and some 1 of a kind pieces. Check out my web site
www.bobkloes.com and see what I build. I am always happy to answer questions or help get you the right lumber for your project.
This is the stepback with the secret space under the lid and secret drawers

This is a tiger maple slab table I did with a good partner who does all the metal and stone work. Hope you enjoy. bob
Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Loading the kiln
Came home yesterday with a load of beautiful wet, green lumber. I got 8/4 birdseye maple, 8/4 and 4/4 flame birch and 4/4 curly hard maple. There is about 800ft, maybe more or less. I was driving with a friend of mine and we had his V10 ford truck. Nice truck. And I am not a ford guy. It was noticeable pulling this load. The roads were icy and sleet and snow was falling. Weatherman said it was sunny. Somehow, I need to find a job like that. Got the load back about 6 hours after we left home. Took it to the sawmill and drykiln guy I use. His name is Bob to. Come to think of it, the guy I drove with was named Bob too. 3 Bobs. No comment...
The load was too big to lift off the trailer with the bobcat[another bob]. I got on the back end , but it didn't do anything. So, we pulled part of the load off and dumped it on the landing. He came back and again I climbed on the back of the bobcat, this time it almost lifted it without coming up on the back end. Thankfully, my butt was enough to hold it almost down to get it unloaded.
Today, Bob called me and said it was time to load the kiln, but he was busy with his own project, so I went over and loaded. Good God , that stuff didn't get any lighter over night.
This is a piece of 8/4 birdseye, almost 14 or 15" wide and 12 feet long. It weighs about 32000 lbs. I think...
This is some 8/4 and 4/4 flame birch. Notice the red heartwood in the birch. It is the color of cherry. This is what they call unselected for color. Means they allow both heartwood and sap in the same piece. I dye this a cherry color and it looks great when its done. I can't wait to turn some legs from the 8/4 stock. All this stuff is just beautiful.
Another shot of the flame birch.
Notice the wide board on the bottom left? That is a 17" wide piece of 4/4 hard tiger maple. I got the stock from 1 tree and its all nice wide clear heavy tiger maple. Its the same as the 8/4 birdseye stock. That all came from 1 tree also. I call those log sets. Once they are dried, I keep all the pieces together. That way, the color for a project is all the same. The price on logs sets is about double or triple regular stock. I don't get things like this very often at all. I have to keep track of these and it takes space and time.
This is some of the birdseye stock, it was from a veneer log that wasn't white enough, I guess. Sure am glad I got it. This is all 12 feet long.
Another shot of the birdseye.
More flame birch.
Notice the top piece? It is called bark inclusion hard maple. Very striking. Its one of those woods you either really like or not. I happen to like it. A lot. Again all from 1 tree.
From the bottom, birdseye maple, bark inclusion hard maple and hard tiger maple.
In the middle of loading this, I had to run to pick up some pieces from a show I did last weekend. I got the truck loaded and came back and finished. I am now home, took some ibuprofen and will eat some dinner. Its been a long day and my butt is dragging.
Friday, November 18, 2011
Figured lumber and how I find it.
A pile of birdseye maple. Its one of those things that when you find some good stuff, you get as much as you can. I have a lot of lumber around my shop and old shop and , well a few other places. I am a lumber junkie. There I said it. I love to find great figured wood. I get log sets and try and keep them seperated. That is not easy.
These are racks of flame birch, curly cherry,curly hard maple and slabs of spalted sycamore. There is some applewood on the floor along with some heartwood curly maple.
Here are some flame birch, curly hard maple, 8/4 plain maple, some slabs, some wide 6/4 white pine and 16/4 clear white pine. More birdseye and somewhere in there is some plain hard maple. You just never have enough. My shop is full also. What can I say. I am a fortunate man. I look at each piece as i unload and stack it and think of what I can make with it. Lordy, there is some wonderful stuff in these piles.
Guess i didn't get to where to find this stuff. That will have to wait for now. if you need some, let me know....
These are racks of flame birch, curly cherry,curly hard maple and slabs of spalted sycamore. There is some applewood on the floor along with some heartwood curly maple.
Here are some flame birch, curly hard maple, 8/4 plain maple, some slabs, some wide 6/4 white pine and 16/4 clear white pine. More birdseye and somewhere in there is some plain hard maple. You just never have enough. My shop is full also. What can I say. I am a fortunate man. I look at each piece as i unload and stack it and think of what I can make with it. Lordy, there is some wonderful stuff in these piles.
Guess i didn't get to where to find this stuff. That will have to wait for now. if you need some, let me know....
Thursday, November 17, 2011
Small chests, figured wood and something different.
I started some keeping chests today. Charles Neil and I made a set of dvds a few years back about these and candle boxes. They are just flat out pretty. I have sold a number of these over the last few years. If you want to see my acting debut and how good Charles is at making these, go here
https://charlesneilwoodworking.3dcartstores.com/The-Keeping-Chest-Colonial-Candle-Box_p_68.html
You can make these any size. I am making these 10" deep, 20" long and 10" tall for the chest. I have made them as small as 8"' by 16". I have seen some made smaller. I like the proportions going by halves.
Here are the 4 I have cut the dovetails on.
The one on the lower right as you look at the picture is made from bark inclusion hard maple. It is pretty cool stuff. I pulled this from a pile at a mill that was going to the pallet factory. I got 1 board that was wide enough to make a chest.
It is full of holes and bark and swirls and all kinds of cracks. I 'll put up a picture of the back side a little further down. When I cut the tails and pins, I wasn't sure what would happen. There are so many cracks and holes, I thought it might just blow apart when I pounded it together. It didn't.
The other boxes are 1 hard tiger maple , 1 sap flame birch and 1 red flame birch.
This is the red flame birch. It is the heartwood of a yellow birch. Very hard and it is red like cherry. Unlike cherry it does not get darker. This one will get a russet amber dye which is my favorite for red birch. It has some really nice figure.
This is the sap flame birch. It has a little broader curl in it. This is the same stuff as Charles used in his table on his show.
http://www.cn-woodworking.com/ Go there and look up his show. He does an excellent job showing how to build furniture. I have been building for 30 years and I learn stuff all the time. Well worth the low cost and if you can't understand something, he will answer you.
Last but not least is the hard tiger maple. It has a nice tight figure. These are always the ones that stop people dead in their tracks at a show. It should be a very pretty one when its done.
Here is the backside of the first box. It has some reddish brown heartwood in it too. I will get some closeup pictures another time. The stuff is really different.
I will show more as I go. I have the hardware for these, which I buy from Horton Hardware.
Deer hunting opens here this weekend and I am expecting the gunshots to be loud. I love hunters. I have hit too many deer over the years and its great to see kids out with their folks hunting and spending time together. Nothing better then that.
https://charlesneilwoodworking.3dcartstores.com/The-Keeping-Chest-Colonial-Candle-Box_p_68.html
You can make these any size. I am making these 10" deep, 20" long and 10" tall for the chest. I have made them as small as 8"' by 16". I have seen some made smaller. I like the proportions going by halves.
Here are the 4 I have cut the dovetails on.
The one on the lower right as you look at the picture is made from bark inclusion hard maple. It is pretty cool stuff. I pulled this from a pile at a mill that was going to the pallet factory. I got 1 board that was wide enough to make a chest.
It is full of holes and bark and swirls and all kinds of cracks. I 'll put up a picture of the back side a little further down. When I cut the tails and pins, I wasn't sure what would happen. There are so many cracks and holes, I thought it might just blow apart when I pounded it together. It didn't.
The other boxes are 1 hard tiger maple , 1 sap flame birch and 1 red flame birch.
This is the red flame birch. It is the heartwood of a yellow birch. Very hard and it is red like cherry. Unlike cherry it does not get darker. This one will get a russet amber dye which is my favorite for red birch. It has some really nice figure.
This is the sap flame birch. It has a little broader curl in it. This is the same stuff as Charles used in his table on his show.
http://www.cn-woodworking.com/ Go there and look up his show. He does an excellent job showing how to build furniture. I have been building for 30 years and I learn stuff all the time. Well worth the low cost and if you can't understand something, he will answer you.
Last but not least is the hard tiger maple. It has a nice tight figure. These are always the ones that stop people dead in their tracks at a show. It should be a very pretty one when its done.
Here is the backside of the first box. It has some reddish brown heartwood in it too. I will get some closeup pictures another time. The stuff is really different.
I will show more as I go. I have the hardware for these, which I buy from Horton Hardware.
Deer hunting opens here this weekend and I am expecting the gunshots to be loud. I love hunters. I have hit too many deer over the years and its great to see kids out with their folks hunting and spending time together. Nothing better then that.
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